MSD 6BTM or J&S?

[AvanishV]

Well, I've got some money to spend and I'm trying to decide which to get. I'm at 6psi and I don't have any detonation at all (that I know of).

What do you think?

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1995 Integra GSR
JR Supercharger (6 psi), HO fuel pump, RS*R Header, Thermal R&D Exhaust, Iceman Intake, Neuspeed Front Tower Bar, Type-R Rear Swaybar, Short Shifter, ST 1.3" drop springs

[Holden]

Neither!

[Marc]

The only problem that I've found with the J&S is that is sometimes hears things that isn't detonation and takes out timing thus losing performance. You have to play with the sensitivity on the J&S. I didn't think I was getting detonation but I got the J&S anyway. I'm glad I did.

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Marc
1997 Civic EX, Supercharged

[Holden]

blowncivic: I only meant for a GSR at 6psi. Your 1.6L engine will most likely live longer as a result of the J&S you ordered.

Here's my reasoning in saying neither for a GSR @ 6psi:

J&S - Why spend $500 if you don't have detonation problems and don't feel the need to crank up the timing. A GSR@6psi with good gasoline and 10 degrees timing or less and a good fuel pump is not a big risk.

Plus, and I'm probably going to get flamed for this, I'm not convinced that 100% of what the J&S 'hears' as detonation is really detonation. I have a gut feeling that this is one of those devices that reinforces its' users' feeling of making the right choice buying it by scaring them (oversensative) and 'fixing' the 'problem' it has just shown the user.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it will save your engine during tuning if something is very wrong. But I don't see the need for it during everyday driving. And if you want to find the perfect settings on a BTM, just start conservative and then turn up the timing and retard settings. When you get knock, back it off.

6A-BTM - No one has shown that the fatter/multiple sparks does a bit of good on GSR's. So that's money down the drain. The BTM function is nice, but this will only help gas milage and off-boost performance. Big whoop. The soft touch rev limiter is nice. No arguing with that.

Overall, I would think the BTM to be more usefull than the J&S. Someday, you might catch me installing a BTM, but you'll never see me hand over $500 for a J&S.

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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC, I/H/E, yada yada yada...
My JRSC Install Site

[AvanishV]

hmmm.... Interesting.

I think I'm leaning toward the BTM. I'm not really worried (knock on wood) about my motor since most of the time I don't drive that aggressive and with my timing currently set at a little under 10 deg. BTDC at 6psi, I have no detonation.

Improving gas mileage is always good considering gas prices now and low end power would be a nice gain as well. So I think that's the way I'll go.

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1995 Integra GSR
JR Supercharger (6 psi), HO fuel pump, RS*R Header, Thermal R&D Exhaust, Iceman Intake, Neuspeed Front Tower Bar, Type-R Rear Swaybar, Short Shifter, ST 1.3" drop springs

[green95gsr]

Holden is right. If you dont have detonation and do not plan to squeeze more power from the car just leave alone and save your hard earned money!
I've had a J&S before and it definitely will take out timing whether you need to or not!! this is a common problem with the J&S. You have to mess with it constantly to make sure it does not sense knocking when it is not there. This is not BS or just my theory either, I had a turbo Miata and knew a lot of guys with similar cars and they all had J&S caused power losses.

I don't know about the MSD BMT. It is awfully tempting and I've almost bought one several times In theory (just like the J&S) it sounds great but I don't know how well it really works. I also had a MSD timing retard unit made specifically for the Miata and I think it caused me some erratic idle problems. I'm not sure because I added a JR FPR at the same time and it could have been the problem. It was a Pain in the a$$ and I finally disconnected the MSD. The problem did not go away but it got somewhat better, oh well....
Anyway, I sold the Miata and now I have a JRSC GSR. I've heard the BTM can cause problems with the tach so I'm a little afraid to plunk down $300+ just to get more problems.

This is just my $.02, Your milieage might vary, etc.

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[blowncivic]

Holden:

Why neither? I have a J&S ordered! Is it not worth the cash? It's been recommended to me by many people who have used it previously. Should I cancel my order? Any input? Thanks. Tom.


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'92 Civic Si H/B (D16Z6) with JRSC, I/H/E...

[turbotypeR]

what the hell is a j&s.

[blowncivic]

J&S Safeguard. See link:
http://www.redisoft.com/integra/safeguard.html

Tom

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'92 Civic Si H/B (D16Z6) with JRSC, I/H/E...

[lundgren]

See my site about the J&S.

If you want to go safety and want to get your motor to last longer, J&S.

If you want to get more low end power, and gain some gas mileage, I'd get the BTM.

BUT, while you adjust the BTM, don't blow your motor up, which is why I say, the J&S is the first thing to do, cause it will allow you to tune safely.

Of couse, there are other things you can do to make the car better, besides these two, if you haven't already done suspension work for example.


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